Hulk vs Godzilla: Infinite-Sun7000 Blog

Hulk vs Godzilla Analysis:

u/Infinite-Sun7000 Blog

TN by me, u/Infinite-Sun7000

Hello everyone, I hope you're all doing well. As someone who proudly considers themselves one of the most dedicated Godzilla supporters on this subreddit, I’d like to take the time to respectfully and thoroughly present my perspective on how Godzilla's win conditions would function in a direct confrontation with the Hulk.

This analysis will go beyond surface-level comparisons, aiming to explore the depth, versatility, and mechanics behind Godzilla’s capabilities especially as they relate to his potential advantages in this particular matchup. I appreciate your time and open-mindedness in reading through my breakdown and remember, this blog is mainly to encourage a fun engagement over this debate.

Before we begin, I'd like to clarify that the first few arguments addressed in this post are primarily drawn from comments and posts made by frequent users within this community who have expressed opposing views regarding Godzilla's capabilities. As such, I will be referencing their usernames directly. Please understand that my intention is not to mock, accuse anyone of downplay, or label any position as 'wank.' This post is simply meant to offer a respectful rebuttal to differing interpretations and to clarify why I believe Godzilla holds the advantage in this matchup.

With that said, let’s not waste any more time and dive straight into the discussion!

User Debunks

So starting off with the most obvious, and possibly the only person who can match my enthusiasm regarding this matchup, I'll be debunking most of his arguments first:

Post #1: Bruce's Intelligence

Okay, so this might be a bit awkward, but I remember the user in question once made a post claiming that Bruce could counter Ultima through sheer intelligence. Unfortunately, that post seems to have been deleted or removed, so I can’t link it here for reference. That said, the idea of Bruce’s intellect being a major win condition is a common stance among Hulk supporters and I completely understand why they lean in that direction.

How does Godzilla counter this? Well, easily said that he's just outright immune to it. Literally, in the Anime and the Novel it's made quite clear that Ultima cannot be defeated and the solution to his defeat is non-existent as said by JJ, a singularity with infinite amounts of computational power via access to the Sea of Information. I could certainly make the case that Godzilla is capable of just outsmarting Bruce through super-computation specifically by exploiting time dilation to process and solve immensely complex problems in mere moments which is also the same phenomenon that enabled Jet Jaguar to synthesize the Red Dust during their battle (If you're interested I mentioned about this wincon on a post I made a while back).

However, that level of strategic calculation won’t even be necessary here. This rebuttal isn't ultimately about raw intelligence, it's about hax. Jet Jaguar’s role in the final confrontation led to him becoming trapped in an endless time loop, allowing him to execute every conceivable method known to mankind. It’s stated that it took at least a billion attempts before triggering non-existent miracle and from Arikawa’s perspective, it was akin to "defeating Godzilla in a way that doesn’t exist."

As for humans solving Godzilla, that is ultimately a surface-level reading that overlooks the true nature of the events. In reality, both Jet Jaguar and the OD are manifestations of a much more intricate phenomenon one rooted in a paradoxical chain of causality, orchestrated across space and time by a Singularity and guided by the AI Pero2. This shifts the entire narrative from a story of human triumph into a metaphysical recursion.

From the very start of the series, we're given clues. The cryptic song that later guides Jet Jaguar to victory isn't a mere coincidence it was sent by Jet Jaguar himself, from the future. In this way, Jet Jaguar becomes analogous to the 'Bad Wolf' from Doctor Who: an entity untethered from linear time, threading through reality to ensure its own creation and success. The same recursive logic applies to the Orthogonal Diagonalizer. Though it’s said to be modeled on the original Oxygen Destroyer, the blueprint itself is a temporal artifact, also provided by Jet Jaguar. All of this is only possible because of the unique power of the Singularity that Jet Jaguar at one point harnessed.

By the climax, Jet Jaguar is no longer just a robot. He becomes, in essence, a god despite his 'city-level' frame. He exists beyond causality, capable of perceiving and computing every possible future outcome. Through time dilation, he executes super-computation on an infinite scale, solving impossibly complex equations that would otherwise take billions of years instantly. This is made possible through the Closed Timelike Curve enabled by the Singularity, allowing Jet Jaguar to answer questions before they are even asked. This is how he was able to utilize the Orthogonal Diagonalizer and synthesize the Archetypes, a substance so complex that its molecules could not even be synthesized through normal means.

In short, Jet Jaguar’s victory over Godzilla wasn’t the result of human invention, but of an ontological loop an event crafted by a being who transcended time, causality, and reality itself. Something Banner has never replicated before in the past.

Post #2: Hulk tanks Vector's Reality Warping

You guys may not have seen the more detailed counterarguments I made a very long time ago back then as Connect_Writer7282. And my argument still remains the same, while Vector's feat is destructive in scale, his reality warping is still fundamental at best (Space-time distortion / Fabric of reality). In comparison, Ultima can manipulate things down to the metaphysical level such as very "fact" of things that allows him to control causality as more evidently when he created paradoxes by simply ignoring a physical event.

To better understand the dynamic here, let’s frame it through the lens of durability negation. Durability negation comes in many forms ranging from relatively grounded effects like organ failure, to higher-tier abilities such as soul manipulation or even existence erasure. For example, imagine a character capable of generating enough electricity to power an entire planet. Impressive as that may be, it still falls short compared to something like soul manipulation, which while smaller in scale can bypass conventional defenses more effectively.

Similarly, in this matchup, Vector’s ability to repel the Crossroads is potent, but it pales in comparison to the more abstract and fundamentally broken abilities possessed by Godzilla Ultima via text manipulation and subjective reality, which can overwrite logic itself even if we consider it to be smaller on a destructive scale.

This is still assuming that Godzilla's reality warping scales below Vector's feat of repelling the Crossroads, which at best is Infinite Dimensions (Hyperversal) < Ultima manipulating the causality of Red Dust Kaijus which are connected to countless + 1 temporal dimension of higher cardinality (High-Hyperversal).

Structure, Dimensionality and Framework

In someone's latest post, the summary sorta showed that you have a huge misunderstanding on how R > F works in general. You seem to talk about R > F difference as if they apply in the same exact way in every debate. I did ask you to properly read my take in the past, but it seems that you must've missed something.

If you want to argue that Hulk cannot affect Ultima due to Ultima existing on a higher layer of R>F, that’s a separate argument. But I’ve heard a lot of people claim that Hulk DOES scale high enough to kill Ultima, but cannot reach Ultima because of R>F…which is an inherently nonsensical argument. Either Hulk can reach/affect the same level of reality as Ultima, or Ultima outscales Hulk.

To clarify, the argument here isn't that Hulk lacks the dimensional capacity to interact with Godzilla Ultima, they both exist within a comparable ontological framework, meaning they can interact under the right conditions. The problem lies in something more subtle but important: range, scale, and narrative abstraction. Not dimensionality. Power tiers give us a baseline for comparison, but they don't tell the whole story. Two characters might both be 'outerversal' or higher in scale, yet how their powers function and manifest can be radically different. Some characters operate in a more grounded, physical sense, while others are portrayed with abstract, almost metaphysical properties even if they’re in the same tier. That difference matters.

Take Hulk, for example. His strength and resilience scale incredibly high, and he has fought cosmic beings before. However, much of his power is localized and contingent on direct engagement as his fists, his rage, his durability. Meanwhile, Godzilla Ultima’s portrayal leans heavily into the abstract: he's a being tied to Singularity-based causality, spreads across timelines, distorts reality, and manipulates existence itself through phenomena like Red Dust, text manipulation, and super-computation.

Even if Hulk can reach outerversal+ scaling in terms of raw power output, it doesn't guarantee he can meaningfully affect Ultima. That’s where range and method of attack come into play. If Hulk is situated in a smaller universe, or if he operates on a level requiring physical proximity, then engaging with something like Ultima who can influence vast structures of reality across non-linear timelines becomes inherently difficult and It's not just about how big your explosion or how strong you are. It’s about how your powers interact with the opponent’s framework. And some characters, despite being in the same 'tier', are simply too abstract or metaphysically slippery to be affected by conventional brute force.

Another core argument centers around scale, specifically the difference in existential size. Hulk simply has no realistic means to reach, or more accurately, to exert force upon the entirety of Godzilla Ultima’s being. If we assume this battle takes place on some random Earth, within a random universe nested inside a cosmology of infinitely stacked dimensions, multiverses, and planes of existence then the question becomes clear: how does Hulk, a physically localized entity, interact with a being whose existence transcends space, time, and causality itself across the cosmology as a whole?

To reiterate, while Hulk may be placed in the same general tier as Godzilla Ultima potentially even High Outer in some interpretations but the nature of their existences is fundamentally different. Hulk is still portrayed as operating through a conventionally physical body, subject to basic frameworks like spatial distance, sensory limits, and proximity-based force application. In contrast, Godzilla Ultima is a being defined by transtemporality, transduality, nigh-omnipresence, acausality, non-linear existence and other divine characteristics that completely break the mold of conventional combat. This gives Ultima a decisive advantage not just in power, but in how that power exists and expresses itself across all of reality.

Range

Secondly, it's important to emphasize how the context of outerversal scaling or the R > F distinction plays heavily in Ultima’s favor. The issue of range is often brought up and rightfully so. Many argue that Hulk simply cannot reach Ultima, and that’s a valid and crucial point.

Your argument seems to suggest that Hulk can interact with Outerversal beings, which, to be fair, most Godzilla fans including myself have already acknowledged. But acknowledging that Hulk can interact with Outerversal entities isn’t the same as proving he can approach them.

Let’s put this in perspective: if Hulk were placed on a random planet within a random universe, how exactly would he reach Ultima’s true form? a being whose existence likely transcends that entire cosmology and is placed for beyond Hulk's reach? The argument isn't about whether Hulk can interact with Godzilla, it's about whether he has the means or mechanism to even reach Ultima in the first place. And currently, he doesn't. Some might argue that since Hulk is outerversal, he must be able to reach Ultima, but that oversimplifies the issue.

Power does not equal range. For example, Wolverine’s claws are made of adamantium and have consistently pierced or harmed cosmic-level characters like Thanos, World War Hulk, and Thor. That alone could place the output potential of his attacks somewhere around universal or beyond. Yet, when he slices the ground, the Earth doesn’t split in half or explode. Why? Because the force is concentrated on a small point, with his claws are limited in scale and application, not potency.

Similarly, imagine an asteroid the size of the sun crashing into Earth. Despite being incomprehensibly massive and causing planetary-level devastation, the raw energy output from the impact would still not be enough to destroy a universe. The key difference here is the scale of effect and area of influence, not necessarily raw destructive capacity.

Energy Absorption?

My favourite section to refute. If you haven't known, his argument lies within a long chain comment originated from here to counter my argument regarding Hulk's vulnerability to energy siphoning and how Godzilla has the necessary means of using it to his advantage.

I'll try my best to make the best rebuttal, however it'll not follow the order of his argument as I mainly want to start from the poorest to the best rebuttal he made. So let's start with the most debunkable:

"There's no evidence you currently have that suggests the cells passively absorb radiation; Biollante, Spacegodzilla, and Destroyah probably need to consciously activate the abilities derived from their G-Cells; they couldn't do that when they were being overwhelmed by Godzilla's Atomic Breath; were they were permanently killed by the blast? Never showing up again?"

Personally, I find your skepticism a bit confusing. First and foremost, it’s important to understand that we’re talking about cells here, which are, by nature, self-operating biological systems. They function passively within the body without requiring conscious control. So the idea that these kaiju would need to be aware of or consciously control their individual cells feels like a stretch to me one that seems rather peculiar, given how biology typically works even in fictional contexts.

However, if you're still asking for evidence, then denying that these cells operate passively, particularly in terms of energy absorption would directly contradict the established origins and biology of the kaiju we've been discussing. The process is well-documented: the cells interact with external stimuli, absorb the necessary energy, then transform, adapt to the new environment, and regenerate by accumulating mass. I’ve also already linked a comprehensive blog that outlines this exact mechanism, clearly explaining how energy absorption is a passive function of these cells at the same exact comment you're replying. So the claim that there's a lack of evidence is simply inaccurate. The very existence and evolution of these kaiju hinges on the autonomous nature of their cells.

If that still doesn’t satisfy your skepticism, then consider one of Godzilla’s most iconic feats: the birth of Spacegodzilla. In this case, nothing but raw, unconscious Godzilla cells entered a black hole and exited through a white hole, absorbing the energy of countless supernovas along the way. This overwhelming energy intake is what ultimately led to the formation of Spacegodzilla himself. That alone should be more than enough to address any remaining doubts and act as clear evidence that Godzilla’s cells are inherently capable of autonomous energy absorption.

As for the question whether or not they were permanently destroyed? They did, moreso in the manga against Destoroyah seems a lot more impressive visually.

Hulk was able to drain Red Hulk's Gamma, who easily took his stolen Gamma back from Doc Samson instantly.

That still doesn’t really address my core argument about Hulk’s vulnerability to energy absorption. I never denied his efficiency, and I'm totally aware about other feats such as Red Hulk absorbing the Silver Surfer, which is arguably a better showcase of raw power anyway.

But these feats don’t refute the fact that Hulk is consistently shown to be susceptible to having his energy drained, regardless of how much he can store or how high he scales. Even if he’s considered 1-A in power scaling terms, that doesn’t make him immune to being siphoned by characters with potent absorption abilities at least within the consistent context within Marvel. If anything, the way his energy reserves are portrayed while immense, are accessible. Making it a reasonable case for why Godzilla could absorb him.

Gamma, in it's conceptual basis, is the emanation of The One Below All, who is ascent over the countless worlds within worlds besides worlds above worlds (which is infinite layers into Outerversal, with The One Below All transcending it, making him High Outerversal, so even Doc Samson's gamma absorption, or other Gamma Mutate's gamma absorption would be High Outerversal.)

So this is where the debate becomes heavily divided, and frankly, I find this approach to scaling Gamma energy to be quite misleading and logically flawed. The idea that Gamma is High Outerversal simply because it originates from the Below Place associated with The One Below All doesn’t automatically mean that every use of Gamma, or every Gamma Mutate, should be treated as operating on that same tier.

If anything, the fact that Gamma Mutates can wield this energy in such a physical, conventional way raises serious questions about whether the source's tier truly applies in combat scaling. By that logic, should every part of Godzilla Ultima's essence be considered High 1-A just because his true form exists at that level? Clearly not or the fact that the source of Power Ranger's powers originating from The Grid where most people place at at least 5D doesn't necessarily mean every small essence of their attacks storage is 5D in output.

The leap in logic here stems from taking the cosmological origin of Gamma energy and applying it uncritically to all its manifestations. A more grounded conclusion would be to question the consistency and applicability of Gamma's supposed tier. Especially when we consider that Hulk despite his immense power has repeatedly had his energy being drained by characters far below the High Outerversal level. Havok, Rogue, basic machinery, and even Jackie McGee, a regular human, have all interacted with or drained Gamma energy with no indication of facing insurmountable metaphysical resistance. While some of them were repelled, it's mainly due to the active resistance of towards it and not the cause of the raw nature of Gamma itself.

And let’s be honest, Jackie McGee is not High Outerversal. Yet she existed in the Below Place and even harnessed Gamma-based abilities through exposure to it. If that’s not an anti-feat for the idea of Gamma being inherently High-Outerversal in every context, I don’t know what is. It’s far more reasonable to consider that Gamma energy, despite its origin, doesn’t always carry that same level of potency when manifested. Maybe Gamma simply doesn’t require much storage capacity, or perhaps each time it’s transferred or absorbed, it functions more as a form of power bestowal rather than raw, quantifiable energy. This would explain why so many characters regardless of tier have been able to absorb, manipulate, or interact with Gamma without any metaphysical strain. It’s not about where it comes from, but how it actually operates within the narrative and how it's portrayed across different users.

Fabian Nicieza, the writer of the comic, is more known for writing X-Men stories than writing for Hulk; he'd think that a Gamma Siphon would just work on Hulk, despite Hulk walking through fire from gamma-inhibitor cannons and unfazed by missiles that explode an aura that tries to siphon off enough energy from Hulk to knock him out.

I don't see how this disproves Hulk’s anti-feats? Comic book characters are often portrayed as far weaker than they should be due to the massive inconsistencies that come from different writers and interpretations over time. The credibility of any given power system in comics tends to vary for that exact reason and objectively speaking, Hulk is often presented as one of Marvel’s strongest characters that largely stems from his popularity and status as a flagship protagonist. Should that automatically discredit all of his feats? Of course not. But if we ignore the inconsistencies and downplay moments entirely, then we might as well admit that none of this matters since the very hobby we’re engaged in is built on stories, not hard numbers.

Moving on.

Despite Surfer being able to channel The Big Crunch or The Universe's energy, which at bare minimum, would be 11D, making Surfer's Energy Manipulation way more stronger than anything in Godzilla; the scan where Hulk claims he fled in fear was because of not just Surfer, but mainly his death from being separated from Banner; since Hulk was weakened when they were fighting, it's inconsistent that he's vulnerable to The Power Cosmic, as he has been able to eat a full front blast from Surfer.

Red Hulk was unable steal WWH's gamma, who's powerful due to his intense anger after the detonation of his spaceship killing his wife, with him being implied that the rage and vengeance made him even stronger; Hulk should be able to scale to WWH's anger based strength growth, as he can turn into The World Breaker just from the mentions of Caiera, his wife, whereas it took more anger & time from the betrayal by his best friend, Meek, who set his spaceship to explode in the first place to become The World Breaker.

Carl Creel, The Absorbing Man, cannot not only absorb Dormammu's enchantment which made him stagger him, but absorb The Cosmic Cube as well. I also already discussed how Hulk's growth in strength countered Absorbing Man's absorption powers, despite his being amplified way higher. For the first scan, Havok or the narration never imply that Hulk's Gamma was drained, as it took Havok, to first attack Hulk's weak spot, then control his mind, and finally endure the strain of controlling Hulk. For the second scan, Havok got overloaded and got KO'd from absorbing Professor Hulk's gamma rays, but Professor Hulk was unaffected by his Gamma absorption afterwards.

Ultima's avatar is baseline High-Hyperversal (ℵ₀- Dimensions) > Silver Surfer's feat being High -Complex Multiversal (11D). This is mainly due to his potential being limitless in the context of one Universe in Singular Point while also being considered the "source of power" for Red Dust Kaijus all of which are inherently operate on a Countless + 1 Flowing Temporal Dimension System of higher cardinality in nature, who are the same weaker beings that can also overwrite the structure of the Universe. Sure, that doesn't necessarily mean he's physically High 1-B conventionally, but the potential of augmenting his body to reach that level as evident of the inevitability of reaching the Omega Point as well as the earlier limitless potential feat makes it very possible (Low Outerversal). and honestly, he doesn't even have to be within the fine context of this battle.

The argument stems between us mainly the nature of their energy capacity, their overall ability to absorb, manipulate and resist forms of energy. As seen with your argument regarding High 1-A Gamma Mutates, is safe to say that Ultima while conventionally Island level still fits your description is it not?

Conclusion of Section 3?

While u/spiders_magic presented a solid case for Godzilla’s advantage in energy absorption, at best, it only highlights that this aspect of the matchup is more of a close contest, with valid arguments on both sides. Portraying Hulk without addressing this rebuttal gives the misleading impression that Godzilla would effortlessly exploit Hulk’s weakness, something the counterargument clearly pushes back on.

That said, it doesn’t eliminate the relevance of Hulk’s vulnerability either. His resistance to energy absorption has been shown to be inconsistent over time. To my conclusion, the main rebuttals I've seen, including from u/spiders_magic, is that Hulk can overcome this flaw by overloading his energy reserves through rage. While that’s a fair and reasonable point, dismissing earlier anti-feats solely because Hulk “wasn’t angry enough” doesn't fully address the issue but something should be taken into account.

After all, even with all the supposed resistances, one can just find just as much anti-feats to support how inconsistent Hulk truly is in this area. For instance, during his Worldbreaker state, he was instantly drained off his gamma by the Cathexis Ray and Titan Hulk being notably weakened due to Monolith siphoning his energy. Mind you, both of these cases were portrayed being drained instantaneously with Hulk at the peak of his rage, which effectively make his case a lot worse. And of course, the infamous beatdown from Zeus. While some argue he wasn’t fully motivated in that encounter (An argument which should be factored into analysis, not conveniently dismissed), still doesn't excuse why his inability to rage his way into recovery during the aftermath, that left him helpless for three days.

As I see it, there are really only two consistent interpretations you can accept. Either you acknowledge that Hulk’s strength and powers fluctuate significantly allowing for moments where someone like Godzilla could realistically damage or overpower him or you place Hulk at a lower tier outright, factoring in his numerous anti-feats as a reflection of his inconsistent performance, which ultimately prevents him from being considered High-Outer to begin with.

Personally, I lean toward the former. It allows Hulk to be fairly scaled to his peak showings, including those on par with high-tier herald-level feats. Moments like him being knocked out by Ben Grimm or Anathema She-Hulk comic despite supposedly being Fractured Son during the time, can reasonably be chalked up to fluctuations in his rage levels. That explanation makes more sense than simply downgrading Hulk's tier across the board without nuance.

That’s how I’ve always viewed the matchup. I’ve never considered energy absorption to be the sole reason Godzilla could reasonably defeat Hulk. (It may seem like I’ve shifted my perspective, but those familiar with the depth of my research would likely how I'd already foresee this). Ultimately, it’s requires the combination of Godzilla’s other abilities such as his reality-warping, causality-altering powers, formidable ranged weaponry, and remarkable survivability that truly make the difference. In a prolonged battle, these advantages could allow Godzilla to capitalize on the natural fluctuations in Hulk’s rage, providing the right conditions for a potential victory.

Godzilla's Wincons

As a general overview, I believe Godzilla holds the advantage through a combination of his hax, broader versatility, remarkable survivability, and energy absorption that’s at least comparable to Hulk’s. These attributes together could allow him to secure a hard-fought but well-earned victory. That said, I think some of Godzilla’s abilities are often underestimated and are far more significant than they’re typically given credit for.

Power Growth:

Many tend to emphasize Hulk’s rage amplification, but it’s worth noting that Godzilla actually showcased this concept earlier demonstrating a more consistent and nuanced form of power growth. Hulk is often framed as an unstoppable force with his power increasing exponentially with rage. While this makes him incredibly formidable, the key to defeating him often lies in disrupting that momentum. Tactics like energy absorption, mental interference, or even a well-timed strike can temporarily interrupt his growth, can shift the pace in the opponent’s favor. While it’s true Hulk can resist such effects, even brief moments of hesitation or distraction can dull his rage and by extension, his power. There was even an instance where a short conversation with Thor mid-battle caused Hulk to lose enough rage to walk away, illustrating just how delicate that balance can be.

In comparison, Godzilla’s growth is often depicted through stat amplification, passive adaptability, and progressive escalation portrayed in a more methodical and deliberate manner across his appearances. Unlike Hulk, his power isn’t limited or dependent on emotional states like rage or pacing. In fact, Godzilla frequently demonstrates his most significant growth after enduring brutal defeats, using those moments as catalysts for overwhelming comebacks. Like the time, he obliterated Hell's Gate Guardian after he realizes his epiphany, destoyed 4 Mechagodzillas after being cornered and beaten up by them, gained an amped state literally by regenerating back from a corpse, beat both an upgraded version of Mechagodzilla and Titanosaurus after he was beaten to death and buried underground, passively absorbed the life force of 13 kaijus to kill magita and so on so forth. Godzilla will continuously grow in power without issue, even at the face of death would most likely rely on his resurrection to kick in and still maintain if not increase his power level.

One is faster and grant a burst of exponential power that at any day could be weaker due to the fluctuation of his rage, while the latter can and will grow limitlessly more effectively non-stop at a slower yet consistent rate.

Defense and Abilities:

As a walking Singular Point, he possess a myriad of reality warping and endless amounts of abilities that can control range. Godzilla's layered defense would prove too much for Hulk to handle. As he can still anticipate all of his attacks due to his nigh-omniscience, he can see and experience all the possibilities simultaneously mid battle, he can smoothly travel through time via CTC due to being a singularity. His precognition is demonstrated through Anguirus, who can vibrate and perform a shield-like barrier to deflect bullets by anticipating it's attacks via precognition, confirming again Godzilla's capability.

Godzilla is equipped with a vast array of weaponry that provides multiple layers of defense. To start, he can unleash his signature nuclear pulse an omnidirectional blast capable of repelling close-range threats. He can also emit atomic breath from his dorsal plates or directly target fast-moving opponents like Hulk using his tail, both of which are especially effective against agile foes. Should Hulk manage to get past these initial defenses though it's highly unlikely. Godzilla has several additional mechanisms to counter him. He can manipulate his body defensively, such as forming a vibrating barrier to deflect attacks. He’s also demonstrated the ability to use his blood in a prehensile manner, catching opponents mid-attack an ability confirmed in the novel, where his precognition aids in executing such tactics. Godzilla’s powers extend into more abstract abilities as well. He can disregard the very "fact" of an attack, creating paradoxical states where the effects of Hulk’s blows become null or undone effectively negating any attempts of Hulk trying to absorb him which is only possible through physical touch, and also erase an infinite number of possibilities in favour of his desired outcome.

While Hulk certainly possesses the brute strength and durability to power through many forms of resistance, there are specific abilities in Godzilla’s arsenal that he has never been shown to overcome. Notably, there’s no clear evidence of Hulk successfully resisting high-level causality, fate, or probability manipulation, elements that play a major role in Godzilla’s more esoteric abilities. When paired with Godzilla’s superior intellect, bolstered by his cosmic level precognition and awareness, these advantages could be enough to strategically outmaneuver Hulk. Even in a prolonged engagement, this layered approach gives Godzilla a realistic path to securing a hard-fought victory.

Hulk's Advantages and Debunks

Hulk is one of those characters who tends to attract a lot of exaggerated claims, especially when it comes to the believability of his feats. Many fans often say Hulk has fought reality-warpers or beings on the level of someone like Ultima, but rarely provide proper context or evidence that he actually resisted reality-warping of that caliber. The most cited example is Vector, whose powers are more aligned with matter manipulation or telekinetic force rather than true high-concept reality alteration. Simply surviving a fight with someone labeled a "reality warper" doesn't automatically equate to resistance against that specific ability.

Similarly, while Hulk has fought characters capable of energy absorption, these powers are often not actively used against him in any significant way. Thor, for instance, has the ability to absorb energy but never really uses it strategically in his frequent battles with Hulk. Or maybe the instances of Hulk beating Dr. Strange, a character whose versatility matches Ultima's toolkit only to realize the confrontation was nothing more than a straightforward brawl. That weakens the argument that Hulk inherently resists such tactics. It’s like assuming the cast of Gravity Falls all resist reality warping just because they beat Bill Cipher when in reality, the narrative and context tell a different story.

So for this section I'll be debunking Hulk's so called resistances or arguments to any of Ultima's advantages:

Reality Warping: Hulk broke Nightcrawler's realm who was warping reality in his Dark Dimension.

This doesn’t equate to resistance to, or the ability to negate, reality-warping. In this case, reality warping refers to the creation of a pocket dimension which indeed requires a degree of reality manipulation, but primarily for the purpose of constructing a specific space. It's essentially a more exaggerated version of Domain Expansion from Jujutsu Kaisen, where users manipulate space and reality to trap opponents within a domain tailored to their own abilities. These constructs are designed to give the user an advantage, not to directly alter or disrupt the opponent’s physiology on a fundamental level. By that logic, would it be accurate to claim that every Jujutsu Kaisen character can negate reality-warping just because they can create and overpower one's domains? Of course not that would be a stretch.

Hulk adapted to Cosmic Rays, which was one of his weakness.

Not it's not. In Immortal Hulk, Joe Fixit (the Grey Hulk persona) was initially trapped in human form due to Devil Hulk manipulating his access to the Green Door. After being killed by the U-Foes, Joe manages to escape the Below Place and re-emerges in a reddish Hulk form. This transformation occurs because X-Ray had previously bombarded him with cosmic radiation, which was originally harmful to him essentially his kryptonite. However, due to Devil Hulk's interference, Joe Fixit absorbed the cosmic radiation instead, resulting in a new Hulk form powered by both Gamma and Cosmic energy.

Even if it’s technically considered adaptation, the ability requires extensive setup and multiple processes to activate, making it completely non-combat applicable and ineffective in any meaningful way. It doesn’t come close to offering any valid reasoning for it be better than Godzilla’s adaptation (Which I've seen some try to claim).

Didn't Hulk fight Nightmare in his own dimension, which exists between existence and non-existence?

He only fought an illusion. Nightmare was completely unharmed by the end of the issue. As for “ripping apart” the dimension, the phrase “tore it asunder” is clearly hyperbolic, referring to some level of environmental damage rather than total destruction. And in the other instance where Hulk defeated Nightmare, it was when Nightmare was significantly weakened.

Godzilla's Wincons & Advantages:

Structure, Dimensionality and Framework Part 2:

While I don’t dismiss the notion of Hulk fighting conceptual beings, the key difference lies in how Ultima is portrayed compared to Marvel’s often loosely defined abstract entities. I remember someone once asking, “What makes Ultima any different from Marvel’s conceptual beings?” and the answer is... a lot.

Ultima’s existence, structure, and presentation are on an entirely different level. Where all, yes, all, not many, all of Marvel cosmic entities can feel like poorly written children's imaginative OCs in comparison, Ultima is grounded in a deeply thought-out framework. His design is an attempt to genuinely explore a higher-dimensional being one that exists beyond human comprehension, using accurate representations of mathematics and advanced physics. Reading the material surrounding Ultima doesn’t just feel compelling; it feels intellectually credible.

What truly sets Ultima apart is the involvement of Toh Enjoe, a writer renowned for his intellectually dense and scientifically intricate storytelling. Enjoe brings a level of literary and scientific rigor that is exceptionally rare in this genre. He is also the author of Self-Reference ENGINE, a work often described as a mathematical equation disguised as text, highlighting his unique ability to weave abstract concepts into narrative form. As the literary journal Asymptote once noted about Enjoe’s work:

"Toh EnJoe's stories are known for their scientific lucidity and literary impenetrability. His language and his writing style, however, belie his background as a physicist: topics woven into his stories include science, but also linguistics, literary theory, and philosophical approaches to the imagination. His complicated narrative structures are the subject of heated discussions and have even evoked harsh reviews calling his work 'indigestible', 'sleep-inducing,' and 'reader-unfriendly'."

It's understandable that slander toward Ultima will appear in this subreddit, and I don’t hold that against anyone. However, we need to acknowledge a fundamental issue: no argument or feat from Marvel even with full context can genuinely nor remotely stand up when compared to the sheer complexity of Ultima’s design. A single, seemingly minor passage from the Singular Point novel can humble even the most ambitious Marvel cosmology claims.

To illustrate the disparity in narrative depth: in Marvel, you could sketch a stick figure and call it “infinite-dimensional,” then overlook glaring inconsistencies simply to serve the plot. This exposes the flaw in arguments like “Hulk can fight conceptual beings.” Marvel often portrays so-called conceptual entities while disregarding the nuances of true abstract or higher-dimensional existence, just to preserve visual coherence. As a result, these entities become tangible and susceptible to conventional defeat especially when the plot conveniently supports Hulk overcoming them.

• “Hulk killed Dormammu!” Yes, but only when Dormammu was conveniently portrayed in a conventional sitting really near and within Doctor Strange’s grasp, allowing Hulk to be used as a weapon.
• “Hulk clapped TOBA away! Ignoring the very specific that Hulk had a unique ability allowing him to enter the Below-Place, and TOBA was given a physical form that Hulk could conventionally interact with dispelling him only after TOBA's essence was manifested as dust in front of him.
• “He broke conceptual chains!” Sure, but those chains were depicted as literal, physical constructs. Just because something is labeled conceptual doesn’t mean it was portrayed that way in function.
• “He killed Brother Deep!” Again, only after plot-convenient knowledge was handed to him, putting Hulk face-to-face with the entity to kill him in a conventional approach.

That’s exactly what makes the complexity of this matchup so profound that none of Hulk’s conventional methods even come close to replicating what was required to defeat Ultima. His loss to Jet Jaguar wasn’t a straightforward battle, it involved layers of context, multiple calculated steps, and a convergence of highly specific conditions. The entire scenario was built on a framework of scientific, temporal, and metaphysical elements that made the outcome possible. The transtemporal artificial intelligence, Jet Jaguar, who manipulated space-time and rewrote causality itself in a desperate effort to stop him. Recognizing that conventional salvation was impossible, He unknowingly trapped himself within an infinite time loop, granting himself an endless number of chances to confront Ultima. It's revealed that over one billion different methods were executed before a so-called "miracle" occurred, an outcome that ultimately led to Ultima’s temporary banishment.

Yet even this victory is recontextualized from a higher, transcendent perspective. There, it’s shown not as a clear triumph, but as a cosmic stalemate of two opposing forces locked in a conceptual and narrative-level struggle with Jet Jaguar fighting to restore the universe, and Godzilla seeking to unravel it where Jet Jaguar's triumph was dubbed "connecting the unbeatable Godzilla, to a story that he was beaten". This is something utterly beyond the reach of conventional characters like Hulk, whose straightforward approach is simply not equipped to engage on this kind of multidimensional, reality-defining scale. Punching away a multiverse is one thing, but recontextualizing and manipulating the very metaphysical essence of the universe to shape reality toward your intended outcome is something else entirely especially those attempts were actively negated by Ultima all the time.

In another way to frame the difference:

Imagine a Marvel cosmic entity that exists at every point in time. If Hulk were to defeat such a being with a punch, one might argue that this demonstrates his ability to harm something like Ultima’s true form. After all, destroying a being that exists across all of time sounds impressive. However, that interpretation only works within the narrative framework of how Marvel typically portrays cosmic entities. Ultima’s transtemporal nature is fundamentally different. It applies specifically to his true form as we refer to as Prologue IT (basically the True Form for your understanding, which I’ll explain further shortly for clarity). This form represents the amalgamation of every Godzilla across the recursive cycle of dreams, a construct that transcends individual timelines.

Essentially, you cannot defeat Ultima’s true form, or how I prefer to call him as Prologue IT, simply by destroying one of its avatars. Ultima’s existence at every point in time refers to the entire collective of those avatars across the dream cycles. A single avatar does not possess that transtemporal nature on its own. Therefore, a feat like Hulk destroying a being that exists at all points in time within Marvel’s framework does not apply in this case. It becomes irrelevant, because eliminating one avatar of Ultima is merely erasing a single manifestation among many. The true form, which exists beyond and through all timelines and incarnations, remains completely unaffected.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the accurate depiction of higher-dimensionality within the context of Godzilla Singular Point stands as the central argument supporting Godzilla’s victory. A proper understanding of the nature, context, and metaphysical framework that Godzilla operates within reveals just how fundamentally different he is from conventional characters written by fairly conventional writers. When examined through this lens, it becomes clear that every of Hulk’s encounters with cosmic entities even when fully contextualized within Marvel’s cosmology and meta-narratives still provide little to no reasoning that he could ever defeat Godzilla, either strategically or physically as evident in the clear disparity in the quality of Ultima’s design, which simply outclasses the structure that not just Hulk operates within but even Marvel's High-Tiers.

Hulk Arguments and Rebuttals

Resistance to Reactive Evolution/Adaptation: Darwin couldn't adapt to The Hulk, thinking the idea impossible,  the same Darwin who can adapt to Hela's death powers to steal her title and adapted to entering of the M'Kraan Crystal, which allowed him to travel across it as a nexus for The Multiverse.

What appears to be evolution is merely the effect observed from our perspective. For Ultima, the change is retroactive, embedded into his very existence from the start, making attempts to counter or resist his adaptation effectively meaningless as he's not even adapting nor evolving in the first place.

Hulk can interact with the astral form which are incredibly abstract in nature. Gaining the most out of the ability of Non-Physical Interaction.

Another major issue with many arguments in Hulk’s favor is that they completely sidestep how he would deal with Godzilla’s true form. It’s not just about whether Hulk has powerful non-physical interaction abilities it's about whether he can actually reach or physically approach his opponent in the first place. No level of potency, conceptual abstraction, or claims about Hulk’s ability to affect non-physical beings explains how he could interact with something fundamentally out of reach or physically detached from a conventionally well written set characteristics beyond conventional framework.

If that’s still unclear, consider this thought experiment: imagine Character X has the most broken non-physical interaction abilities imaginable including intangibility, non-corporeality, abstract all the way to nonexistence. Now place Character Y on the other side of the planet. Both characters are standing still. Without any form of teleportation, range extension, or dimensional reach, how does X touch Y? Exactly. The argument might support Hulk dealing with Ultima's avatar, who's a walking singularity, but it says nothing about his ability to confront the True Form.

Basic Magic in Marvel is OP, they are Outerversal in potency with a bunch of hax!

First of all, no. If you actually think any average marvel character can one-shot any verse due to the nature of Marvel's Magic than you're clearly wrong. Similar to the aforementioned Gamma, the setting and power varies in appearance due to context and it clearly has limitations of it's own.

Many Marvel characters without explicit magic resistance can still endure or resist magical attacks. This is because magic in Marvel often respects conventional durability, mental resilience, and narrative context rather than bypassing everything through overwhelming hax. For instance, Blackheart’s magic-based mind control was resisted by Daredevil, who has no magical resistance at all. He broke free purely through willpower and Spider-Man’s support but not through any kind of conceptual or narrative immunity, which shows that even high-level magical abilities can be resisted without abstract-tier defenses, and that magic in Marvel isn’t an automatic win button. It’s very common in Marvel for characters to withstand magical attacks despite having no magic resistance.

But someone will say, “That just means all of these characters secretly have resistance to 1-A level magic and conceptual, law, or plot-based hax.” But that doesn’t hold up under scrutiny.

Some characters, like members of Gladiator’s race, are explicitly stated to lack magical defense. In general, science-based characters like Iron Man or Vision also generally have no magic resistance, aside from a few exceptions. Yet they regularly survive or fight through magical attacks. This is even supported by the official Magic page, where Doctor Doom notes that those without magic shouldn’t be able to resist it yet many do. If every character who withstood magic had resistance to high-end conceptual or narrative hax, that would mean nearly the entire Marvel Universe has those resistances, which clearly isn’t the case. There are countless examples of magic-vulnerable characters, including non-powered humans, who’ve taken magic attacks and kept going.

One of the clearest examples is Gladiator, who is explicitly stated to be vulnerable to magic. Despite that, he tanks a magical blast in the same scan without being one-shot by conceptual or narrative-level hax. This isn’t an isolated case either when Gladiator has taken attacks from Cyclops wielding a portion of the Phoenix Force, which is accepted as magical in nature. He has also fought Thor, endured blows from Mjolnir, and continued fighting despite Thor's innate mystical capabilities listed as magical, even in modern comics where Mjolnir is shown to retain a magical aura. Thor was weakened in one instance, but the weapon’s magical nature remained intact.

Iron Man is another prominent example. His suits, with the exception of the Mysterium Armor, are not designed with magic resistance, and several modern armors explicitly classify magic as an unknown energy. Yet he consistently survives magical attacks. The most notable example is the Silver Centurion armor withstanding flames from Master Pandemonium. Iron Man admits the flames are supernatural and bypass his defenses, yet he holds out, estimating it would take minutes before they reach his flesh. Pandemonium later confirms the mystical nature of the flames when he damages both Iron Man and Human Torch, who also isn’t resistant to magic yet recovers quickly. Johnny Storm also lacks magic resistance. In fact, it’s established that magical fire can bypass his normal fire and heat immunity. For context, Master Pandemonium, who has harmed him before, possesses magical power on par with or exceeding that of Agatha Harkness, a recognized high-tier sorceress in the Marvel Universe.

In Iron Man #600, Tony endures a lightning blast from the Hood, whose powers at the time were demonic in origin. Despite not understanding or countering magic directly, his Model 51 armor also survives extended exposure to Madame Masque’s magical blasts, even when Friday ejects him. The Silver Centurion armor even endures Mephisto’s fire by using cooling systems, while Tony can’t push through the flame wall, he isn’t severely injured by it either.

Even more grounded characters like Luke Cage, Spider-Man and Hawkeye have endured magic-based attacks. Luke survives the Hood’s Norn Stone-infused bullets and magical flames, Hawkeye despite having no superhuman powers, takes a direct magical hit from the Hood and is still able to fight afterward while Spidey broke out of Zarathos' illusion and harmed him.

In conclusion, despite Basic Magic often possess Outerversal potency and durability-negating properties, it can still be resisted or endured through conventional durability. Depending on the spell’s potency, even characters without any explicit resistance to magic or its effects can withstand magical attacks through sheer toughness, willpower, or tech-based defenses.

Hulk possess paradoxical existence, which can resists time travel and being erased out of history and is stated to be the only being to resist the repetitive alterations to The Timestream, along with its temporal cancer as well. The Chronarchist were manipulating Hulk's personal timeline, to the point that it would change him to other Hulk personas he had built up, and even "squaring" himself when getting hit with another Gamma Bomb; all these retroactive changes would later be reverted once Banner got a hold of Gamma Radiation and used it (either that or Hulk got angry enough to revert back).

Which is nothing special to Ultima. Since the very nature of Singular Point's (The construct and series) hinges on CTC (Closed-Timelike Curves) where it's basically a space-time trajectories that return to their starting point without violating the laws of special relativity. A traveler along a CTC could journey into the future but arrive in its past, creating a possible violation of the principle of causality itself. Massively preceding the process Hulk showcased here which at best, is only retroactive changes via all the events reset by absorbing Gamma (Stuff like that happens all the time in SP, including a long passage explaining the process of thio-timeline that laid the foundation of understanding the function of Archetypes).

Ultima is also capable of slicing through and overpowering nearby buildings that have been infinitely reinforced by the effects of his CTC barrier. This phenomenon strengthens any construct within the range of a singularity by layering uncountably infinite versions of that structure across time and effectively amplifying its durability as every time it was damage a different point in time would replace it giving the illusion of invincibility, as it's described in the novel to be mathematically dense, which is consistent with how metaphysical bubbles formed after Ultima's beam pierced the structure, each bubble representing a potential future or possibility for that structure. Implying that Ultima’s beam erases targets across uncountably infinite timelines and potentialities. Which is significantly buffed to extreme heights when in this context includes singular points which are also transtemporal constructs, irrelevant to the concept of time, and operates within a higher causality system entirely (Acausality Type 5) which rests above paradoxical existence (Acausality Type 1). Not only that, a paradox is still a phenomenon operating under the existence of causality, which Ultima can easily destroy via his atomic breath.

This isn't reaching the fact that destroying the raw nature of Singular Points is one thing but combatting one is another entirely. I noticed that a lot of people downplay JJ as if he was some kind of bum anti-feat that kicked Ultima's ass. When in reality as I've said earlier before, it was the same entity that preserved and manipulated causality to ensure the existence of the series we're watching itself. Not only equipped with non-linear existence, which again within context of Singular Point is OP due to the common and fundamental existence of CTC, allowing him swim through time and space, and properly strategize the best plans by harnessing a Singular Point's computational power. Guided by their only salvation that appears to be a song, only to be revealed that he was trapped in a time-loop executing endless methods all of which were actively negated by Ultima before stopping at the 1 billionth attempt that triggered a non-existent miracle which could be an impossibility, an event that might confirm the Singular Point operates in the same framework as SRE.

Crazy thing is that Godzilla could do the same naturally and overcame this weakness, Hulk just reset events with Gamma? Jet Jaguar was able to reset, reconstruct, swim through, work and warp the very laws, possibilities and causality of the Universe to a definite outcome with some of them were possible via actively partially blind Godzilla's all-seeing precognition. All of this is is one of the many "failures" that the avatar simply overcame.

But Hulk remembered Peter was still Spider-Man, despite Mephisto restructuring reality's possibilities & probabilities so that everyone forgets finding out Peter is Spider-Man, but Mary Jane & Peter's chances of a future together would never happen.

While it's interesting that Hulk retained some memories, it's not as groundbreaking as it's made out to be. It's a neat detail, but nothing in that scene actually supports the idea that Hulk can resist causality manipulation on Ultima's level. Let's not overstate its significance. Moving on.

But he absorbed Dormammu's magic, he projected a magic-gamma blast that obliterated him, killing him who has low-godly regen.

If the feat in question involves using the opponent’s power against them. Godzilla withstood his own atomic breath amplified 10,000 times by the Super-X. The same atomic breath that can negate his G-Cells, which are capable of adaptation, energy absorption and low-godly regen as it can recover after a trip into a black-holes' singularity.

The First Firmament and Patcum Aeturnus

The two underlying core of Hulk's main wincons, let's analyze deeper into how well would it play out.

Hulk resists everything, as he broke the chains made by the the First Firmament that which which binded Multi-Eternity.

Hulk does not scale to Multi-Eternity. The key difference is that Multi-Eternity was directly chained by the First Firmament himself, while Hulk was restrained by chains merely made from a fragment or essence of the First Firmament forged by the Eldest. At best, this suggests Hulk withstood a minor portion of the First Firmament’s power, which it's residual energy caused the Omniversal Flood that affected the Multiverse. Not to mention, the First Firmament only chained a weakened version of Eternity by taking advantage of the moment when he had just been reborn as the 8th Cosmos. Still very powerful, but nowhere near Multi-Eternity.

Broke the Patcum Aeternus an unbreakable contract where, once spoken, the prophecy becomes a law of the natural world itself. Banner invoked it to offer Hulk's body in exchange for Charlie’s life, making Hulk’s defiance of it all the more significant.

From a functional standpoint, the feat aligns more closely with resisting a binding or sealing-type ability rather than true law manipulation. While the term "law" is used, the mechanism operates more like a metaphysical contract. The specificity and context behind it make it unreasonable to equate this act with broad-spectrum law manipulation. Resisting a highly specific and conditional clause isn't the same as countering or altering the foundational laws of reality.

Do they have what it takes to permanently kill the other? And bypass one's immortality or does it need to be bypassed in the first place?

This is probably the ultimate question for both characters and likely the one you’ve all been waiting for. While there’s a clear answer when it comes to Godzilla, but the same can’t be said for the Hulk. I’ve previously offered a detailed breakdown of this topic, but a closer examination especially when you understand the fundamental differences between how Godzilla Singular Point and Marvel operate makes Hulk’s case far less convincing.

To be direct, Hulk simply can’t kill Godzilla. It’s not necessarily a matter of strength, but rather a combination of Godzilla Ultima’s intricate, multidimensional design and Hulk’s more straightforward, close-range approach. It’s not power that’s the issue it’s lack of range, versatility, and the nature of the threat. There are arguments made in Hulk’s favor, but in my opinion, most of them ultimately fall short. So here’s a quick rundown:

Scales to his son, Skaar, who punched through a wormhole and Taveled to a planet beyond the arterial membranes that separate The Multiverse.

I don't think this needs much explanation on why it can't work. Both scenarios requires constructs where Hulk can't just conjure up instantly to assist him. With the first being way too grounded to even come close of arguing whether it could reach Ultima or affect his TF.

Hulk shook the Crossroads, which contains an infinite number of dimensions.

This isn’t truly a range feat, as the transfer of Hulk’s power was only possible due to the structure itself functioning as a Nexus Point one that connects to infinite dimensions. Hulk may scale to the potency of that power exerted but not it's range, similarly to Zeus' feat of wiping out all of the titans via The Sword of Olympus.

Even if we take the feat at face value, it remains ironically minuscule and insignificant when compared to what Godzilla Ultima operates within. As in Singular Point, even a single dimension is described as possessing a higher cardinality that of uncountable infinity, where an infinite number of standard spatial dimensions equates to zero in comparison. Moreover, the Singular Point cosmology contains an infinite number of parallel worlds, with some of them encompassing uncountably infinite spatial dimensions themselves.

What Hulk needs is dimensional travel, and does he possess the necessary means affect Ultima as a whole? Let's see:

Scales to Red She-Hulk who punched back into The Universe even after being put into The Infinite Avengers Mansion and tried to be sent to another dimension via multidimensional configuration.

While inter-dimensional travel is certainly a noteworthy feat, it becomes significantly less impactful when considered against the immense and complex cosmology presented in Singular Point. Given that Ultima exists beyond an infinite number of qualitative transcendences, simple dimensional traversal even at a multiversal level falls far short of what would be required to engage with him meaningfully.

Even using a character like Simon, who can navigate through multiple outerversal layers, would likely struggle to bridge that conceptual gap. With that in mind, the argument that such travel scales to Ultima's level, while understandable, ultimately lacks the depth needed to hold up within the context of Singular Point’s narrative framework.

This leaves Hulk only one possible option, that killing the avatar alone is enough to to satisfy Death Battle's unspoken rule where the opponent is within suspended animation, and unable to return instantly into battle. The same rule that led to Hulk's loss against Broly, Bill's win against Discord and Kratos' victory over Asura.

Given the massive gap in stats (Outer+ to High-Outer > Low-Complex Multi to High-Hyperversal+), one can simply argue that Hulk could just power through Godzilla’s hax, overwhelm his regeneration and energy absorption, and ultimately force even the final layer of his immortality to fail under pressure of the rule?

However, this interpretation fundamentally misrepresents the nature of Godzilla Singular Point as a whole. As I've said it multiple times before, what we witness throughout the series including Godzilla himself, Jet Jaguar’s journey, and the unfolding of events is not an objective representation of the full metaphysical reality. Rather, it’s a conventionally tangible and linear manifestation of a vastly more complex, higher-dimensional framework that also includes Godzilla's temporary absence which is instantaneous from his perspective.

Jet Jaguar’s countless rebirths are a prime example as his claim of being reborn over and over until he found the precise method to confront Godzilla are literal, where the accompanying novel supports this by stating that over a billion different methods were attempted, where most of them were negated. Whether it takes one, a billion, or even quadrillions of iterations, all of these outcomes are encoded within a nonlinear framework that plays out instantaneously making it dismissible. This monumental struggle wasn’t a triumph over Godzilla but part of the inevitable process of his evolution a reality confirmed in the prologue of the novel. Even Jet Jaguar’s role, however noble, was merely one among countless variables in a process that Godzilla ultimately subsumed and surpassed on his journey to the Omega Point.

So we know that Hulk can't kill Godzilla, but can Godzilla do the same and kill Hulk permanently for good?

To answer the question, yes, with some careful digging. The crux lies in the nature of the Catastrophe (the human-designated term for Godzilla's transformation into the Omega Point) and whether it's effects could realistically work on the Hulk. Interestingly, a scene from the recent Fractured Son run sheds light on this. But before we get there, we need to understand how the Omega Point, Catastrophe and transcendence function within this context.

The Omega Point, is just a process where uncountably infinite parallel worlds, timelines and dimensions were overlapped in order to form a cocoon for Godzilla to hatch out of. As described by Jet Jaguar future self described being on transcendent perspective/position, existing from a transcendental perspective, he views the entire process as fiction and holds full narrative control over his past self. To prevent the world from being completely erased, he engaged in a narrative struggle against Godzilla matching destruction with preservation in an effort to balance what Godzilla was unmaking. As the description describe with these words:

The term 脈絡 (myakuraku), composed of the kanji for "pulse" (脈) and "intertwine" (絡), refers to the logical flow or contextual coherence between ideas or events.

Next, エピソード and シナリオ are written in katakana, indicating they are loanwords: episode and scenario, respectively. エピソード on the other hand describes individual events or narrative segments within a larger work, while シナリオ refers to the broader plot, script, or structured sequence of a story.

Finally, 解説 (kaisetsu) combines the kanji for "untie/solve" (解) and "explain/theory" (説), meaning a detailed explanation or commentary, often used in academic or analytical contexts.

Together, these terms form a cohesive vocabulary for discussing storytelling structure and interpretation in Japanese media. Implying that Godzilla is destroying things down to the narrative level.

As for Hulk, the fundamental flaw behind his immortality could very well be his undoing. In Incredible Hulk (2023) #24, it's revealed that Doctor Strange created a room within the Sanctum Sanctorum where Bruce Banner is completely unable to transform into the Hulk, achieved by having the meaning of Gamma itself significantly lessened. Trapped inside, Bruce is ultimately killed, unable to summon the Hulk to protect him. He only survived later on because the creatures that devoured his body left the room before fully digesting him, allowing Hulk to burst out from within their stomachs once he was free of the spell's effect.

The Omega Point is essentially a small dimensional contained space where all narratives and meaning collapses. It doesn’t need to erase the concept of Gamma entirely, only diminish its significance. When combined with Ultima’s existence erasure down to the causal and temporal level and his precognitive super-intelligence, any potential mistake would be anticipated and prevented, allowing him to put Hulk down for good.

Verdict:

As a quick rundown, I firmly believe Godzilla’s superior arsenal, reality-bending hax, immense range, and unmatched immortality would definitely secure him the win. Hulk’s vulnerabilities aren’t glaring weaknesses that Godzilla can instantly exploit, they’re rare, subtle flaws that only appear over time, usually through battles of attrition. Unfortunately, that’s exactly where Godzilla excels at. His incredible survivability, probability-altering abilities, and strategic precision make those small cracks in Hulk’s armor appear more often, turning the Banner state into a more frequent and exploitable risk. Godzilla’s ability to counter Hulk’s many resistances, combined with the fact that Hulk has no clear way to kill him permanently, tips the battle even further in his favor. Meanwhile, Godzilla’s own capacity to erase Hulk outright creates a win condition Hulk simply can’t match.

The fight would be monumental, chaotic, and brutally destructive, but the outcome is clear: victory would belong to the Son of the Atomic Bomb, the Avatar of Destruction, the Monster Who Ate the Star, the God of Hopeless Futures, and most importantly the King of All Monsters.

The Winner is Godzilla.

SSKKREEEEOOOOOONNNK!!!!

I want to take a moment to sincerely thank everyone who stayed with me all the way to the very end of this discussion. I truly appreciate the time, effort, and patience you’ve invested in reading through this deep dive, it means a great deal to me.

Your interest, whether you’re here to agree, challenge, or simply learn something new, makes all the research and effort worthwhile. I hope this breakdown not only gave you a clearer perspective on the matchup, but also entertained and engaged you along the way.

Your support and willingness to follow along through all the complexities is something I don’t take for granted. I genuinely hope you enjoyed reading this blog as much as I enjoyed putting it together.

Thanks guys, and stay safe.